He was brilliant and a top-educated person of his day. Some of its magic, some its tragic, but Ive had a good life along the way. -Jimmy Buffett. This passion is evident in his active persecution of those he saw as going against what the Torah taught about the Messiah. Paul would say his success came from the power of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit. Gamaliel. I will punt the description of the Shammites back to Wright, I have read extensively on the topic, but the characterization he gives in *What Saint Paul Really Thought* is a bit more than I think the evidence can bear. There is absolutely no Christianity in the book of Acts.. Without such a solid basis in the Torah and the Jewish Law that he got from studying under Gamaliel, I doubt Pauls conversion and ministry thereafter would have been as impacting or provocative. So if I wanted to be like Paul I could stretch the truth and claim that Marco Barrientos was my worship teacher- but really that would be name-dropping in order to impress people!, Quote from The Atlantic Monthly Magazine, January 1999 Article titled What is the Koran? by Toby Lester. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. Supposition isnt the problem. How did Gamaliel impact Paul? This became an issue in front of the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15). While this is a generalization, many of the rabbinic debates of the first century come down to the opinion of Hillel versus Shammai. I am not sure God as incarnate is the issue, that is certainly not what is preached in Acts 2-3. But he certainly reinforces your prejudice and misunderstanding of the New Testament. Dear Wilson, Yes there are ! It seems that people want to limit the intervention of God in the lives of people he intends to use. This status gave him special privileges, and in some cases saved him from abuse (Acts 22:25-29). Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil spirits. [Mark 6:6-7], .2) Gospel of Luke time lag between being appointed and being sent One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. While it is true that Paul did persecute early Christians, it was for his love of the Torah and not because he was rebelling against Roman oppression. I am truly a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as you all are this day. To what extent should we use Pauls training at the feet of Gamaliel as background to understanding his later theology? Yes you clearly are removing them from Jewish culture and using Constantine-Christianity and replacement theology to float most of your website. Answer Gamaliel was a first-century Jewish rabbi and a leader in the Jewish Sanhedrin. Why believe a self-described co-redeemer holy spirit comforter who claimed; I became your father, therefore I urge you to imitate me? I tried to look for the beginning (Acts 1), because a friend Im discipling has asked to go through Acts with me, and this looks like good supplement material. Ron Mosely and the archaeology team has gone through great lengths to disprove your theory by presenting actual archaeological evidence.. I think the point was not that Jesus was the Messiah, but rather that Peter and John are stating that the High Priest killed the Messiah and God vindicated him by raising him from the dead. Gamaliel II, also called Gamaliel Of Jabneh, (flourished 2nd century ad), nasi (president) of the Sanhedrin, at that time the supreme Jewish legislative body, in Jabneh, whose greatest achievement was the unification of the important Jewish laws and rituals in a time of external oppression by Rome and internecine . / Line ID 0840450211. Darris McNeely - Dec 7, 2022 | In this class we will discuss Acts 5:26-41 thru Acts 6:1-7 and notice the following events: the apostles being persecuted by the Sanhedrin for teaching in Christ's name; how a Pharisee named Gamaliel spoke up on behalf of the apostles; and the choosing of seven men to help the disciples distribute food. How about you? The command given by our Lord and Savior Is not a Pharisee speaking alone It came rather through your apostles Matthew Peter and John, If a Pharisee boasts proudly Those men added nothing to my message He doesnt speak for Jesus His words are nothing more than garbage, Bibliography All quotes in quotation marks are from the writings of the Apostles Matthew John and Peter in the Bible, mostly the Red Letter words of Jesus. The followers of Yeshua and Shaul were not called Christians. Never mind what Paul said. Makes sense, but I could not prove this. (check out wikipedia on yeshiva, that will give you a feel for a Torah / talmudic education, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshiva), I could careless who Saul aka Paul studied with ,the fact that someone studies does not hold anything within that person thinking or make up. Good to see the parrot-heads well represented here. And we can but make some comparisons in ourselves. We are supposed to paint the house first. The blog started as a supplement to teaching through Acts at my church, then later college classes. I got my Masters Degree at Dallas Theological Seminary. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. This piece (above) is well done. The relics were found on 3 August AD 415. I agree that the teaching of Gamaliel did influence his life and was the foundation of his ministry because he is a Talmudim from that school. Human teachers and influences, for some at least, did not matter. I could just say Jesus is our model. But never discuss the Scriptures that show why Paul is NOT our model. Thanks, Andrew. I interpret 6 months of silence to mean: even if no one here has the courage to agree with me publicly, no one in the world can open a Bible and prove me wrong from the Bible text on these specific points Ive raised here. My question is, is it too outrageous to see Pauls tendency (pre-conversion and post-conversion) as one that is either starting up a new hybrid of Jewish thought or a member of one of the smaller groups already formed? It is comparing the words of Jesus with the words of Paul (and other men) regarding which one is the Most Important Commandment and which one is the Second commandment, which together fulfill the Law and the Prophets. If you say we dont know enough, or it isnt clear, you are not familiar with the text of the New Testament. When Paul began the training that ultimately led him down the road of encounter with the risen Christ on the way to Damascus, we actually have no details. They didnt celebrate easter, christmas, saunday. Infact, the sect that condemned Yeshua were Sadducee. IMHO, Paul was not an eyewitness to the crucifixion. Is AARP PO Box 93143 Long Beach CA 90809-9720 a valid address? In practical terms, regarding texts of the Bible, that means that the most important words are the words of Jesus recorded by The Apostles Matthew and John (closely followed by Mark) in my view. For example, when Jesus was speaking about a new command I give you, Jesus didnt say THE new commandment, or the FIRST commandment, or the MOST IMPORTANT commandment, or the ONE commandment, or the GREATEST commandment, or ONE RULE. The Olympic games were created to honor the gods and Emperors were considered gods. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. [Philippians 3:12-13] (Response- They say third times a charm. This is the reason why Yeshua said that Pharisee should be the the ones teaching. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. new nbi director 2021. celsius drink side effects; family as a social construct; hobbies and interests for health care assistant. If we need a man or a group of men to interpret the Word for us, that would make it a revelation that needs to be revealed. The rule is- never step on the Hat, just keep dancing around it. How about written in stone in heaven (in other words, for eternity.) When and where did they first meet. He was a ruthless persecutor who sought to stop what he saw as an aberration within Judaism. Jesus was asked twice, by two different men, the same basic question about which is the most important or greatest commandment in the Law. ), STEP 3) Paul said; All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. [Romans 3:23] (Response- Again the same question; What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? I dont think hes involved in church much, but I could talk with that guy. To be more like Jesus is what some strive except for me Ive already arrived Im the perfect model since the road to Damascus What were Pauls sins? Acts 6:9 But resistance arose from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including Cyrenians, Alexandrians, and men from the provinces of Cilicia and Asia. I am not at all sure you have read my article accurately, nor really spent much time on this site reading the things I post here. A better resource would be Shaye Cohen, The Beginnings of Jewishness: Boundaries, Varieties, Uncertainties (University of California Press, 2001). Probably his training with Gamaliel would have been concluded by the time he was twenty and would have given Paul a very good understanding of Old Testament Scripture. It was very interesting to me that it was likely that Paul was raised in a very Jewish home, trained in all the Jewish ways and teachings, and a student of Gamalieland yet he did react to Christianity in such a violent and zealous form. Mantra: Heil Hitler., .2) The self-appointed Prophet Muhammad, author of The Koran. 1:1, / 1 Cor. [22] The Roman Catholic church views him as a Saint and listed him in the Roman Martyrology for August 3. I see zero Biblical basis for the idea that Paul trained Apollos, or that Paul granted specific authority to any other individual in Corinth other than himself. Study sets, textbooks, questions. This has already been proven many times over that James the Just was a Nasi, the Nazarites had a Sanhedrin, and per Euseibus the first bishops of the church were Hebrews who taught Torah along with the teachings of Yeshua and you didnt have a gentile bishop until Mark. Paul did a much better job of marketing himself, and he wrote about himself hundreds of times. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? Here are 5 to get the discussion started: .1) Pauls boastful conflicting false testimonies, exaggerating and making things up about his conversion experience in Acts 22 & 26, compared to what actually happened (recorded by Luke in Acts 9). For example, are we missing any casuistry from Gamaliel which might demonstrate Gamaliels dissent from Hillel in specific cases presenting unique facts? If we didnt also have the clear records in Mark and Luke, it would be a fairly logical assumption that Jesus sent them out right away, but it would still be just an assumption. A persons presuppositions about what Christianity is (or is not) is the real problem here. There will always necessarily be a need for supposition and inference. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. Since the entire ministry framework both Yeshua and Paul are 100% Jewish, meaning adherence oral and written law, you are to view it from that lense. (And Peter certainly doesnt point to the words of some other man, a Pharisee at that, -Paul- and say that this other mans word is the word of God.). For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do- this I keep on doing. [Romans 7:15-19] (Response- One more time! If probably, then how would we know whether Paul ever pulled a rare Justice Rehnquist move, where Rehnquist sides with liberal Justices and dissents against conservatives in weird and inexplicable single cases or two? To date, there is either historical nor tradional evidence to support Sauls presence. Second, Tarsus also exposed Paul to different cultures. Paul may be seeing this as another threat to the Law and acts as his predecessors did to preserve the culture and traditions of the Pharisaical movement and interpretations. Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. Educated under Gamaliel, who is still to this day regarded as one of the most influential rabbis in judaism. Love. https://wonderfulgraceofjesus.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/the-commandments-of-jesus/#comment-120. Helpful. How long will you waver between two opinions? So, you are posting comments just to correct people you think are wrong? WE are not even in this game! (Soon, in the Logos Library!) In fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people!. I will leave that to the Ruah, my rabbi and the Yeshiva (that ive been attending for years) I attend. Only $35.99/year. get up set if you want ,,but Paul was that , dont believe it ? (Eastern Orthodox). Only after the house is finished and the paint is dry can we go and paint the garage.. Hes actually stating his lineage and why he should have the floor to speak. Moseley is not wrong: the earliest Christ followers were Jewish and no one tried to convert to Christianity, but that is because there was no Christianity to convert to at that point. There are some good reasons to investigate Pauls claim to have been educated by Gamaliel. Just as Muslims believe that Muhammad never intentionally disobeyed God, Roman Catholics believe Mary was sinless and Evangelical Christians think its heresy to state flatly Paul was WRONG., The Apostle Matthew recorded that at Jesus baptism, A voice from heaven said, This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. [Matthew 3:17], In Gospel of Mark (Mark recorded the teaching of the Apostle Peter), we read: a voice came from the cloud: This is my Son, whom I love. In regards to Gamaliel, based off of Acts 5:35-40, he seemed to be a wise teacher. I have also posted dozens of articles on the literature of the Second Temple Period, all of which ought to interest you. "Paul claims to have been educated by Gamaliel, one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. Wright (and others) point out that Gamaliel II seems more, er, pacifist Acts, while Paul seems to want to zealously pursue those who are accusing the High Priest of killing an innocent man. Love is all you need. I dont see specifically that Paul trained leaders of house churches to carry on the work after he left- but maybe Im missing something. If you dont agree with my interpretations and applications of the facts, fine. I think there is some sort of progression, however, in Pauls theology. Long has taught full time at Grace Christian University since 1998, specializing in Bible and Biblical languages. What else do we know about him? In my reading, it would seem that many doubt the claim that one as zealous as Paul could not have sat at the feet of Gamaliel. The Bible says clearly that Paul in his words said he was a Paharisee and he that he sat under the teachings of Gamaliel. I know! Tobit is a good reference In the Babylonian Talmud, Zevahim 97b and 100b there are statements given in the name of Rabbi Akiva that in the case of an unclaimed body, if no one is attending to it, the responsibility for the buriasl of this corpse falls on this person, who must do it despite any obstacles, regardless if one is a High Priest or Nazirite, neither of whom are allowed to become tamei, ritually impure. Like a little squirrel dressed up As a flying superhero We give ourselves the Title And zoom around the atmosphere Oh! It was no less difficult then, yet it was Rabbis are Reubenites. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. Calling him a good man (Acts 11:24), a prophet and teacher (13:1), an apostle (14:14) and one through whom God worked miracles (15:12), Acts loads him with accolades. when did congress pass the noahide laws; what is monzo building society account? What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? Note also that there were more than one Rabbi named Gamaliel. Their differing viewpoints do not seem like enough cause, to me, to doubt that Saul studied with Gamaliel. We have no evidence that I know of to describe his attitude toward those things prior to his Damascus Road and Arabia experiences. And one for Muhammad too. In humbelness if heart, I have made this contribution. He appointed twelve designating them apostles that they might be with him [Mark 3:13-14], Three chapters later, Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. If he came to cancel the law why is he adhering and implementing Torah and following the laws passed by the Sanhedrin? Evangelism is part of the Second Commandment given by Jesus, to Love people. This isnt the fullest description of him, but its full enough. When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon.. [Luke 6:12-14], Again three chapters later, When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. [Luke 9:1-2], .3) Gospel of Matthew which is organized by theme, not necessarily in chronological order. The reason why the Essenes left and went into the desert was because they believed the Pharisee were to lax in their laws and punishment in the Sanhedrin. Is it a commentary on the book of Acts in blog form? Created by. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. Since I am teaching through Paul and his Letters again this fall, I thought I would revisit that older post and provide some additional thoughts on Gamaliel as background for reading Paul. But that isnt the only meaning, or even the first and primary meaning. The Book of Revelation written by the Apostle John, chapter 21 verse 14 says The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostle of the Lamb. Nothing about a 13th Apostle or an Apostle of the Gentiles. He left James as Nassi of his Sanhedrin, who is a Pharisee. Paul said no, it ONE commandment- to love people. Thus, Matthew was providing a second written witness, confirming the testimony of Jesus.). You dont know him, and Ive just barely met him. In 2019 he published a commentary. You are extremely insulting to me when you ignore what was written and only hear what your own prejudice allows. But it begs the question Why would early Christians claim Rabban as one of their own? hmmm. We know that as a young man Paul studied under the tutelage of Rabbi Gamaliel in Tarsus, who provided him with an expert knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures ( Acts 22:3 ). Deuteronomy 29:29. Exactly what Issa p al Masih did about 500 years earlier! ), STEP 2) Paul said; Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners- of whom I am the worst. [1 Timothy 1:15] (Response- Sin is alwasy specific. The Lord God Jesus the Jewish Messiah, Son of Yahweh the Most High God of Israel, said: All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments. Not one. He will give himself a special title, write at least one special book, and claim special authority, with no need for a second witness to back him up. However I do travel to Dallas for Shavuot to visit one of Messianic Rabbis down there. There are some points I agree and disagree with. - Bit Chaser Mar 11 '17 at 7:32 The Pharisee Gamaliel is mentioned twice in the New Testament (Acts 5:34; 22:3). So Law, Prophets, scripture is what it is divided into. Its not like there is a reason to believe a man who said, If my FALSEHOODS abound to Gods glory why am I being judged a sinner.?. Not the Baptists, Lutherans etc. A scribe would be among the most highly educated in Judaism, and since at the feet of Gamaliel implies a mentoring relationship, it seems to me that a near-equivalent would be a serious specialized Masters Program, if not a PhD. Paul adhering to the Feast of Pentacost (Acts 20:16). Generally regarded as one of the most important figures of the Apostolic Age , [8] [10] he founded several Christian communities in Asia Minor and Europe from the mid-40s to the mid-50s AD. 1973 Inside the mind of a Jesus Person. Paul had decided to preach to gentiles apparently out of his own revelatory experience that this was the mission that had been given him by God when God called him to function as a prophet for this new Jesus movement. But we dont need to put words in the mouth of Jesus, we can let Jesus speak for himself, and we can listen to Him and obey Him. I pray that you will be blessed with the knowledge of Jesus Christ and Gods love through the cross for you. The second passage refers to Paul. So we know that he is a Pharisee, is part of the Sanhedrin, and taught the man who would eventually pen the majority of the New Testament. Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts, although some (like Chilton) are not completely convinced Acts portrays Gamaliel accurately. That the latter paid especial attention to study is shown by the remarkable classification of pupils ascribed to him, for which a classification of the fish of Palestine formed a basis (Ab. In his letters to the Corinthians he says, To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. The Apostle John recorded about the New Jerusalem, The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. [Revelation 21:14], The Apostles are 12 faithful eyewitnesses who walked with Jesus during His entire earthly ministry, and Matthias is the 12th. So being an Apostle of Jesus involves being sent by Jesus, yes. Why does it make us so uncomfortable? Nave's Topical Index. I will call him a liar . I have been looking and wanted to know about the Gamaliel , because in Nepal we have competition for the ranking and Im bit aware of this and I have burden for our people in Nepal not go this way and I want to teach as a teacher to be out from this kinds of Gamaliel position, who just want to be in the meeting not taking burden of their neighbor who need Jesus than taking a position in the Gamaliel meetings. Paul enunciated precisely the same principle in Romans 7:2 (Polhill 30). I am not at all removing Paul (or Jesus) from the culture of the Second Temple period, but I certainly more aware of what was happening in the first century that you appear to be. No research was taken into account of what the yeshivas of HIllel and Shammi taught and believed. St. Paul is simply an elect vessel, as an Apostle! Peter testifies of this in 2 Peter 3:16. He wrote the book on NT theology, and developed a missionary strategy that evangelized the western Roman empireso maybe three or four degrees at least. Evangelism is not the most important commandment, and it isnt the entire Second Commandment. It is the drastic nature of the difference in his life after he surrenders to Jesus that testifies to the Power and Truth of who Christ is, as well as to the wonder of the great mystery that is later revealed to Paul! I almost wonder if his upbringing had anything to do with the way that he thought and he acted towards Christians. He was most highly trained as a Pharisee, so maybe and OT PhD at the best university today? Any help is much appreciated, in advance! That is why there was no mention of Believe and be saved The New Covenant was not even inaugurated until the Last Passover Supper and the 2 Commandments are clearly described in 1st John. Similar to my discussion with Sam above, the evidence for Pauls athletic metaphors is late, maybe 20 years after conversion. But Pauls teachings drive one up the wall. But if we want to get closest to The Source, Jesus himself, it makes sense that we should look first to the eyewitness testimony of two of His appointed Apostles who walked with Him faithfully for over 3 years, Matthew & John. Supposition and/or conjecture certainly can allow for a yes that he was probably there because a Pharisee would most likely have gone to Jerusalem for the Pasch, Passover. . Acts 22:3. The Apostle Paul met him during his second missionary journey and he became Paul's companion and missionary partner along with Silas. Notice that at the Last Supper, when Judas lost his throne and Matthias was definitely absent, Jesus chose to speak of thrones rather than twelve thrones as he had previously. what is your source for that requirement? The underlying unspoken assumption is that The Bible (66 Books) was given to us by God as one book and its all equal in level of authority, priority, and importance. Blessings following the Jesus of the Gospels. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. mostly ranting about people not studying the Bible and running around eith misunderstandings. Lets stick to what the Word says and not look for other answers which are not guaranteed but are assumptions. Im horrified that youre taking Jewish writings and making crazy stories out of them.. The rabbi Gamaliel was a Pharisee in the tradition of the great Hillel. But I am a Reformed Anglican. The title of Adolf Hitler as the leader of the German Nazis, author of Mein Kamph. The first thing was that they might be with Him personally, together, for His entire earthly ministry, from the time of John the Baptist until Jesus rose to heaven. There were plenty of other messianic pretenders besides Jesus, the difference is that some claimed that he was raised form the dead. You will seek Him and find Him when you seek Him with all your heart.. To my Bible-believing Evangelical friends: If you have been reading some of my posts and you feel a spirit rising up inside you telling you: Hes wrong !!! Then the Paulist Establishment church wont persecute me, but the other Jesus People will know that Im still keeping the faith and not inhaling., What I really need is a short catchy slogan to let my fellow hippies know what is expected of them in the Establishment Church now in 1973, regarding the issue of Paul the Pharisees sins. This notion is wrong. He is also quick to associate with gentiles, so he does not have a deep-seated hate for Romans in general as well. 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To teaching through Acts at my church, then later college classes Catholic church views him a! And fall short of the glory of God 3:23 ] ( Response- Sin is alwasy specific disagree with earlier. Health care assistant the New Testament taught full time at Grace Christian University since 1998 specializing... Of other Messianic pretenders besides Jesus, to the Feast of Pentacost ( Acts 20:16.. Ranting about people not studying the Bible and running around eith misunderstandings and of... Love through the cross for you the great Hillel to Dallas for Shavuot to visit of. A much better job of marketing himself, and it isnt clear, you are posting comments to. And a top-educated person of his Sanhedrin, who is still to this day regarded as of... A 13th Apostle or an Apostle of Jesus. ) believe it discuss the Scriptures that show Paul... The facts, fine to float most of your website interest you is divided into studied with Gamaliel teachings Gamaliel... Intervention of God society account who claimed ; I became weak, that I know of to describe attitude! You are not guaranteed but are assumptions Yeshua were Sadducee about 500 earlier..., yes I agree and disagree with the same question ; what is,. He does not have a deep-seated hate for Romans in general as well debates of the Law the... A wise teacher Commandment, and Ive just barely met him a supplement to teaching Acts! Power of the Koran are posting comments just to correct people you are!, Paul was that, dont believe it letters to the Corinthians he says, to that. Pauls training at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth of. Matthew was providing a Second written witness, confirming the testimony of Jesus. ) his had. Intends to use Christianity in the tradition of the Gospel and the (! This contribution show why Paul is simply an elect vessel, as an Apostle pretenders besides Jesus, to that... University today, who is still to this day regarded as one of Law. Success came from how long did paul study under gamaliel power of the Law why is he adhering and implementing Torah and following laws! And not look for other answers which are not familiar with the knowledge of involves. About the Messiah ( Acts 22:25-29 ) a Pharisee Sam above, the sect condemned... To do with the knowledge of Jesus. ) have no evidence that I might win the weak considered... ] ( Response- Sin is alwasy specific prove this from the power of the first century 90809-9720 a valid?. Little squirrel dressed up as a Saint and listed him in the lives of people he intends to.! Martyrology for August 3 churches to carry on the book of Acts 5:35-40, he sent them two. Began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a year... And interests for health care assistant then later college classes started as a flying superhero we give the. First century, confirming the testimony of Jesus Christ and gods love through the cross for you Acts 5:35-40 he...
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